PDA

View Full Version : Review of ROLEX GMT Master II 116710 "Ceramic", ETA 2836-2 "Wrong Hand Stack" version



By-Tor
09-05-2008, 12:51 AM
http://i.imgur.com/D2P8mT4.jpg

When this gen first got introduced, I was never fully impressed with it. While I thought it was a good looking watch, I still felt that all the magic, mystique and traditions of the classic red and blue Pepsi GMT were instantly swept away. I might be biased, because everything from 1675 to 16710 are my all-time favorite Rolexes. I love that watch so much that I purchased the genuine article just a few weeks ago.

My opinion hasn't changed. I actually like the design of this watch, but it's the departure from the classic, legendary GMT that I'm not too excited about. Maybe I'll change my mind when they introduce the classic "Pepsi" model back into the lineup. Just like you can't offer Ferrari with only in British Racing Green, Rolex shouldn't sell a GMT Master without the Pepsi option.

http://i.imgur.com/kUOGce1.jpg

But besides that, the watch certainly is a good looker and very good replication. This rep has been absolutely all over the place since it was released a few months ago. It is available with the correct hand stack (short: CHS), which means independently adjustable hour hand. Correct hand stack means that the 24h hand is placed above the hour hand. This movement behaves like the gen, and the hour hand moves in one hour increments. But it's also an accident waiting to happen. I have plenty of experience with the CHS, so I decided to opt for the wrong hand stack Swiss ETA movement.

The wrong hand stack (short: WHS) version is a "faux" GMT movement, and it doesn't operate like the gen. The 24h hand is placed below the hour hand in the stack, and one time during the day the hour hand and 24h hand "meet". This is when the visual problem with the WHS occurs. However, you can set the 24h hand "meeting point" to say, 2am or 3am if it bothers you. Besides this "meeting point" the hand stack is very difficult to detect without a loupe. The small annoyance with the "faux" WHS modification is that you have to set the 24h hand "in sync" manually. This has been covered in this article. I have developed a good trust in this WHS ETA "bastardization", and I can recommend it to anyone (as long as you really get a genuine ETA).

There is an Asian version of the WHS available too, but the reports of that movement have been less than stellar.

http://i.imgur.com/GglGJ3m.jpg

This watch has been discussed throughly, so I doubt I can bring anything new on the table. My good friend Dan (a RepGeek admin) compared this with the gen here, and that superb comparison pictorial tells you everything you need to know. The replication is excellent.

The bezel numbers have been improved (they used to be too thick). I'm also very impressed with the dial, which is almost flawless. The Triplock crown isn't perfect (the threads aren't quite apparent enough), but it's very acceptable. Tube looks thick and solid. The 24h bi-directional bezel has a new feature: it moves in one hour increments, and has only 24 clicks. This is perfectly logical for a GMT watch, and definitely a great feature and improvement over the old Master II.

http://i.imgur.com/zRNGqgT.jpg

The biggest flaw on this watch is the non-symmetric rehaut engraving. ROLEXROLEXROLEX should always match with '9, '12 and '3'o'clock markers, and this isn't the case on the rep. The '9 spot is way off target. I find this a bit disappointing, and of course it's not fixable. Big flaw or not... it's another very stupid mistake by the factories. The SELs have been fitted exceptionally well.

http://i.imgur.com/wvz44Id.jpg

The cyclops magnification also lacks the antireflective coating. Many have applied an AR for their mags, and I'm often amazed how innovative our members are. You can read about Lanikai's experiences with it here and here.

The bracelet felt really lousy and cheap when I received this watch. But as usual, there's nothing that a bottle of sewing machine oil couldn't fix. I can assure you, after the "oil treatment" the difference is dramatic. Pour plenty of sewing machine oil all over the bracelet middle links, then twist and bend them like a maniac. Then do it again, and leave plenty of oil on the bracelet overnight. Don't even think about skipping this... oiling the replica Rolex bracelet is absolutely essential modification. The bracelet edges should be gently filed smoother as well. bklm1234 has a good tutorial how to do it.

Polished middle links are a bit "so and so" on a tool watch, but GMT Master has never been a "hardcore tool" like the Sub or SeaDweller, so I think they're acceptable and go nicely with the reflective and shiny bezel.

http://i.imgur.com/ScImFjM.jpg

The clasp is the same as on the Daytona, so it feels solid and heavy compared to the old flimsy design. The micro adjustment is extremely tricky, because you have to release the adjustment pin from inside the clasp (there are no holes outside). If someone has a good system for it, I'm all ears.

http://i.imgur.com/Xa9YVAk.jpg

Is this the best ever otb Rolex replica?

In my opinion: no. The classic (and rare) black Explorer II (the same base model that was used to build my franken) is still the king, but this and the WM9 Sub definitely take the second place. The rehaut engraving is a small (but fundamental) flaw.

I received this watch a few days ago, and while I have to admit that I'm still not completely crazy about it, Of course this is an instant replica classic, and me being a GMT-geek it was kind of a "must have" in many ways. Generally I'm not too crazy about plain black & white watches, but I really like the highly reflective "ceramic" bezel and the Daytona clasp. This watch has "grown" on me a little, and maybe it's just a matter of time when it manages to fully capture my heart. But there's no way I could ever prefer this over the classic 1675/16710.

Thanks to ***Precious Time*** for another flawless transaction and QC'ing this rep for me!

http://i.imgur.com/7Idd8v5.jpg

Dave123
09-05-2008, 12:56 AM
Nice review as always,BT....didn't want to mention it on the forum,might ruin my Breitling image ;),but i have considered the CHS version a couple times......figured its the biggest rollie and good looking,should pick one up.....probably will.....:)

Thanks for the work,great pics.

milesd
09-05-2008, 01:22 AM
I want one of these more and more. Now that they've got the thinner numbers on the Bezel I might have to jump on one. I might hold out for better AR on the cyclops (shouldn't hold my breath).

Chris V.
09-05-2008, 01:25 AM
awesome review B-T.. I always look forward to your reviews!

dtan888
09-05-2008, 01:41 AM
:applause:

Awesome again and again reviews... Very well written, :D :D
Awesome pictures.. ahh what else is new :D :D
Congratulations on your new gen, you are well deserved that puppy, you have written so much about them, now own 1, congrats brother. and I am still drooling at your new gen.

see you around buddy,

Dan

macscac
09-05-2008, 01:48 AM
good write up
we much appreciate your time!

and yes, i am with you, when a pepsi ceramic gmt is released i am in 100%

brokerzach
09-05-2008, 02:02 AM
Thanks By-Tor for another excellent read. I have been on the fence with this rep for a while and it looks like I will be picking on up soon, as well nice job on the photos, especially the one with the wood background, it really brings out the watch's beauty. Good work!:thumbup:

By-Tor
09-05-2008, 02:35 AM
Thanks all, I really appreciate the feedback!

xebay11
09-05-2008, 02:48 AM
The crystal seems to sit higher on the gen.

DWSmoot
09-05-2008, 02:58 AM
Great review BT as usual:) I was hoping you would get around to this one! Thansk for your time and effort:thumbup:

bollobandit
09-05-2008, 03:08 AM
Thank you By-Tor....excellent review :)

By-Tor
09-05-2008, 04:05 AM
The crystal seems to sit higher on the gen.

The gen on the picture is the older model (16710). But you're right... the crystal should be a tad higher... but they're very close, as the crystal is lower on the 116710. Check out Dan's comparison review. (http://www.repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=22100)

oi812
09-05-2008, 05:20 AM
Another great review Bytor! I just received a GMT II IHS last week and love it. :cool:

AllergyDoc
09-05-2008, 05:46 AM
Nice review, By-Tor.

This watch does feel very good on the wrist. It's nicely balanced, like most Rolex. The big watches, Breiting especially, are top-heavy and almost fatiguing to wear all day. Not Rolex, though.

I'm off to get my sewing machine oil for my BKmariner...

josevancouver
09-05-2008, 06:13 AM
Great review By-Tor!

vipermj9
09-05-2008, 12:53 PM
By-Tor comes through with another gem of a review

rc42
09-05-2008, 01:51 PM
Excellent review as usual By-Tor.
My CHS has now been working for two days which I never thought possible ;)

I removed the cyclops because I really hate those things but, unfortunately, the vibration from the removal (hammer and chisel :lol: ) caused the seconds hand to come off, easy fix though and its OK now.

I have very carefully adjusted the hour and GMT hand offset with the stepping hour hand feature and hope I never have to do it again.

The GMT is comfortable and feels very lightweight but I have been wearing a Breitling SA for the last week :D

Verbal Kint
09-05-2008, 02:05 PM
Like i stated before!!! This guys makes it SOOOO intresting!!!

BIG THX BY-TOR!!!

By-Tor
09-05-2008, 03:05 PM
Thanks for all the positive comments Gentlemen!

Appreciated!

MEYER8888
09-05-2008, 05:26 PM
Thanks for all the positive comments Gentlemen!

Appreciated!

you know what you will muss to do!
continue your great rewiew:cowboy:

Beretta
09-05-2008, 05:37 PM
Great Job Snow Dog.

My Asian IHS has been on my wrist almost constantly for 2 weeks now since Josh replaced the first attempt. I thought the GMT may have been running slow but its working PERFECTLY now. Of course I dont EVER play with the GMT hand after I set it the first time (thinking about getting a winder for this one) to avoid any issues.

Great watch. I agree with your review, the rehaut engraving is a fundamental flaw, albiet difficult to perceive without knowing exactly what your looking for and having the watch in your hand. The watch wears great and shows very well. I find myself often polishing the bracelet and crystal with my shirt to keep it shining bright.

When/If this one dies, I'll be first in line to replace it with a ETA version or *hopefully* version 2!



Gimme your wallet and your watch....wait...did you just ask me for my watch?
http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n425/TC911/Mozambique.gif

wwwww
09-05-2008, 06:17 PM
Great read - thanks - i hope it gets your heart !!

$~mLuMaN83~$
09-06-2008, 07:26 AM
Thanks a TON for this man. Ive been waiting for this one!

By-Tor
09-06-2008, 03:14 PM
Great Job Snow Dog.

My Asian IHS has been on my wrist almost constantly for 2 weeks now since Josh replaced the first attempt. I thought the GMT may have been running slow but its working PERFECTLY now. Of course I dont EVER play with the GMT hand after I set it the first time (thinking about getting a winder for this one) to avoid any issues.


I seriously doubt setting the GMT hand on the WHS version can cause any issues. It's the independent hour hand on the CHS which is fragile and very questionable.

I'm not sure what the issues with the Asian WHS have been, but as usual my ETA seems to work flawlessly. In fact I have never experienced any problems with gen ETA whs movements. Never.

rigors
09-07-2008, 08:05 PM
very nice review! thanks By-Tor!

what do you think of the fatter hands and hour markers as compared to the previous version??

Questions
09-08-2008, 01:11 PM
:thumbup: Thanks for the write up. Good read.

bluelotus92
09-23-2008, 05:16 PM
Thanks for the deeply comprehensive review of this watch!
I have been looking at it for a while and can now make the most informed decision!
Excellent work!

By-Tor
10-06-2008, 01:56 AM
very nice review! thanks By-Tor!

what do you think of the fatter hands and hour markers as compared to the previous version??

Thanks man.

I really like the design of the new GMT in every possible way. Very nice watch indeed.

But in my opinion, the old 16710 and 1675 are legends. They have the classic Rolex design, and nothing can ever replace the Pepsi. It's such a characteristic Rolex look, and the new one can't quite match that. Just imho. ;)

fredman
10-06-2008, 06:48 PM
wow ....awesome By-Tor

I am always blown away by the detail of your reviews

Keep em coming:applause:

hustler
10-17-2008, 06:28 PM
nice review by-tor. I agree that I love reading your reviews to learn a little more on each watch.

This is a watch I've considered buying some time in the future (whs asian version) and have a question about the whs vs chs.
On a gen, the gmt hand jumps from hour to hour right? not sweeps the dial like the standard hour hand.
But by the pictures and the review the whs appears to sweep.
Is this correct? and if so, is this the fundamental difference between the whs and chs versions?

Personally, I would 100x rather live with a sweeping gmt hour hand (if its the case that that's wrong) than have the problems I remember hearing about the chs versions.

Also, you noted that the whs asian's movements have been less than stellar. How so?

Thanks for any info on this

Brad

By-Tor
10-18-2008, 04:45 AM
On a gen, the gmt hand jumps from hour to hour right? not sweeps the dial like the standard hour hand.


No.

On the gen the GMT hand doesn't move at all in position 2. When you turn the crown anti-clockwise / clockwise the hour hand moves up and down in one hour increments, and the GMT hand stays immobile.

But when you pull the crown one more time (to the position 3) you can set the time normally (hour and minute), and the GMT hand of course follows and "sweeps" as you described it, keeping it on sync automatically.



But by the pictures and the review the whs appears to sweep.
Is this correct? and if so, is this the fundamental difference between the whs and chs versions?

Personally, I would 100x rather live with a sweeping gmt hour hand (if its the case that that's wrong) than have the problems I remember hearing about the chs versions.


Read this (http://repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=4712) article. I have explained the operation of the WHS throughly.



Also, you noted that the whs asian's movements have been less than stellar. How so?


Members have reported lots of problems with it. Stick with the WHS ETA movement.

hustler
10-18-2008, 10:10 PM
thanks for the extra info, and also the link.
TTK has a ceramic gmt that I was strongly considering, until now I read this and you say the asian movement is a no no, he says his is using the 21j hi-beat movement from the noob's.
For 100 bucks shipped, I knew it was too good to be true

Thanks for the info again.
Brad

By-Tor
10-19-2008, 04:44 AM
Are you referring to this (http://repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=34569)?

If you are, it's definitely not the same rep as the one I reviewed here. Not even close.

Another dealer advertised that same one with the words "100% same as the Swiss version". Maybe there is a "Swiss version" of that rep, but the watch in the pictures is NOT the same as this one (which is a HUGE seller and the only good GMTIIc rep around). That one is an inferior copy in every possible way.

DemonSlayer
10-19-2008, 05:01 AM
I'm sure that I read somewhere that these good GMTIIC's are drying up. The last time I asked a dealer for the asian IHS version, he replied 'the factories are out of stock'.

I'm hoping these are available again soon, I need to get my hands on this one cos of it's incredible build quality.

By-Tor
10-19-2008, 05:05 AM
It might be temporarily out of stock, but I doubt it's going out of production, as long as it sells so much.

Precious Time is still able to source this. That's where mine came from. Have you asked from J&A?

hustler
10-20-2008, 04:19 AM
By-tor, actually I thought they were the same watch minus the movement difference! lol
I'm not a rep guru like you and some of the others on there. I have a hard time nit-picking watches people post and saying "oh thats incorrect and should be xxx".
Comparing (visually) the two the major thing I spotted was the one ttk is selling has pointier crown guards than the one in your post. And of course the movement difference which you have already stated the asain gmt is junk.

Are there more differences with this watch I dont see that just glare out at you that you wanna share?

Thanks,
Brad

By-Tor
10-20-2008, 04:26 AM
Everything is different. Dial, hands, rehaut, bezel, insert, etc. you name it... completely different rep model. Most likely from another factory too.

Check this. (http://repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=35145)

hustler
10-20-2008, 04:43 AM
ah I see. well thanks for that link, that pretty much summed up the differences, and with the pics side by side I can see exactly what was pointed out.

again,
Thank By-tor
Brad


ps. for 100 vs 300 or however much an eta whs gmtII costs...I'm not sure with those visual faults (for me) I would shell out the extra cash for the more correct version. NOW with the words floating around about them not having reliable movements in them...for me that makes it a very big fault for me. I can live with a 'ticky' 21J second hand but I want it to live!

Verbal Kint
10-21-2008, 06:45 AM
Hi By-Tor...

When i look at gen pics of this watch and the rep pics i get the feeling that the crown is bigger on the rep then it is on the gen... What do you think? It's maybe in this topic if so i have missed it...

By-Tor
10-21-2008, 03:35 PM
Crown is pretty much "spot on". If there's a difference, it's very small. Check this (http://www.repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=22100) comparison.

Mr Speedy
07-27-2009, 10:44 AM
Just received this same exact watch. Thanks By-Thor for the article it was very helpful. Your photographs are exceptional.

bambax
04-23-2011, 03:33 PM
thank you for the write up by-tor very informative
especially when i just ordered a gmt IIc asian 2836 whs

asb23
03-06-2012, 10:09 AM
thank you

Daytona1984
04-29-2012, 04:53 PM
very nice! many thanks for sharing!

doubledown
08-07-2012, 08:51 AM
Hi By-Tor, can you please check the pictures on this link and tell me what do you think about it?

http://imgur.com/a/MMji4

Thanks in advance

blorp
08-15-2012, 07:30 PM
Absolutely love these reviews. They're indispensable, and a good read. :-)

By-Tor
08-05-2017, 02:39 AM
Pictures back up for this too.

I guess this is still accurate as the SS version for sale is this one, huh?

XBMX
08-10-2017, 11:51 PM
The 2836-2 ETA is widely used in the rep industry, its generally considered an upgrade when selecting