View Full Version : Review & comparison of the ROLEX MBK two-tone Submariner 16613

06-11-2008, 10:59 PM
The idea for this review came from Eurotimez, who originally sent me the Noobfactory TT Sub for a review a while back. This article is actually a sequel to that one.

Read the review HERE. (http://anonym.to/?http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=70046)

The idea is to compare the two best two-tone Submariners in the market. Actually there's still one top contender, the WM9 version, but that version isn't readily available through our dealers.

I won't comment the gold issue (again), but both of these watches are said to have gold that will never wear off. I don't have a problem believing it, as gold looks and feels excellent on both watches.

MBK (or MBW) Submariner 16613 is based on a very old replica model, and it has similar characteristics as the classic "TW Best" model. (http://anonym.to/?http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=39558)This replica type has very deep rehaut, big date magnification (a bit oversized actually) and very good quality "feel" which compensates the minutia inaccuracies. MBK/TW watches used to have low quality dials, but it has been improved greatly for this new two-tone version. This "2008 model" also has subtle ROLEXROLEXROLEX engraved on the rehaut. The crown guards are ok but not perfect. They seem to be extremely easy to modify though (just remove a little bit from the front insides).


The "Noobfactory" Submariner 16613 is basically a Noobmariner (http://anonym.to/?http://www.replica-watch-guide.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=107)with gold parts. It has shorter rehaut, but excellent date magnification. Some people claim it's a bit too small. I still think the Noob date is much better, because the double digits correctly will not fill the entire date window. The most impressive detail on the Noob is the dial print, which is virtually perfect. The Noob has better crown guards as well. I wouldn't even bother touching them.


One thing that surprised me with the MBK is the amazing depth of the blue dial. Not that there's anything wrong with Noob version, but the MBK dial really screams quality. The bezel insert is much glossier and shinier on the MBK as well. The print isn't quite as good and sharp, but M and m align nicely and I don't find anything to complain, really. The rehaut engraving is a bit too tall, but it's perfecly symmetric (unlike the GMT IIc engraving). I'm not a huge fan of the engraving, and I'd choose my watch without it. But it's bothering me much less than I thought, it's not very noticeable in real life.


We all know how good the "Noobfactory" GMT 16710 and 16610 Submariner dials are. They're probably the best rep dials ever produced. 16613 print is on the same level, but the color depth on the tt version isn't quite as deep as the MBK. Still, a superb dial. I think the dial competition is a tie.


Here's an outside comparison of the watches. MBK on the right. Notice the stronger blue color. Also notice the thicker white crystal "seal ring" on the Noob version, which makes the area just below the crystal look "matte". This makes the rehaut look lower than it actually is. The gen Rolexes have similar "ring" but it's glossier and shinier. We geeks call this effect "rehaut thickness". The MBK has decent rehaut thickness as well. From this angle the MBK looks more accurate, but from the straight front view the Noob looks superior.


Here you can see the difference in the actual rehaut depth. It's not that dramatic at all, but for some people this small difference has become very important. Personally, I consider the thickness effect and correct shape of the rehaut much more important. Noob is a bit too short, but it still wins the rehaut competition overall (just imho). The WM9 version is the only Submariner replica which has nailed this problem area almost perfectly.

In the closeup pictures the MBK looks a bit "wokky", but it's not much of an issue in real life. The SELs are a bit nicer on the Noobfactory version, as there's a slight gap between the lugs and SEL on the MBK. However the MBK has nicer, thicker bezel and more accurate crystal height.


Both watches have the whole SELs covered with gold. On the MBK (left) there's a gold layer over the SEL, and sides are just plated. On the Noob version the whole end link is "solid", as per gen. Visually, the inaccurate MBK SEL isn't any kind of issue, as it's very difficult to notice. Still, the Noob takes the SEL competition.


The clasp on the MBW is way superior. The gold has been applied smoothly and almost perfectly. The picture probably doesn't show the difference, but in r/l the plating on the clasp area leaves a lot to be desired (on the Noob version). The plating on the crown is much better and smoother on the MBK version as well. The plating on the Noob isn't bad or annoying, but it's noticeable in certain lighting (and from certain angles).


So which one is better?

MBK feels a bit more substantial, it has deeper blue dial, deeper rehaut, and superior plating on the crown & clasp.

Noob has better dial, better (smaller) datemag, better date font (double digits not filling the entire cyclops), better SELs, better pearl and better rehaut shape & thickness.

The Noob is a bit more accurate of the two. If these were stainless steel versions, I'd choose the Noob without hesitation. But when it's about gold watches, there are some other factors to consider. The problem with Noob is that MBW feels a bit more substantial, and it simply "feels" more expensive watch. This has always been the case with MBK/TW watches, and I understand why so many people are fans of them.

I thought long and hard about this. But from these two otb replicas, I would probably choose the MBK version. But then again, if the Noob had MBK's crown and clasp, I would choose it instead. MBK is over $100 more expensive than the solid gold Noob version, so this might be a factor to some buyers as well.

The biggest annoyance on the MBW is the date magnification, especially with double digits. Noob crushes its competition in this department. A bit sloppy plating on the crown and clasp area are the "Noob's" only real issues. The Noob is definitely easier to modify to "almost perfect" shape. It only needs new crown, really. After the clasp gets the normal hairline scratches (and believe me, it does), the uneven plating surface will become much less of an issue.

I can't really say which one is better, bar none. That'll be interesting to discuss in this open thread. Please post your thoughts and questions and I'll try to answer them as well as I can.

Either way, after seeing these two watches I have changed my thinking of the two-tone replicas. Both are good and substantial gold watches. If you're a fan of the two-tone Submariner you can purchase either one of these with a peace of mind. These have come a long way in three years.



Thanks for reading, I hope you enjoyed this article. Thanks also to Eurotimez (again) for borrowing these fine watches. Hopefully there's more where these came from.


IMPORTANT NOTE: I will not reply to watch/part/mod questions via PM from the members anymore. I'd love to help everyone privately, but my PM box gets flooded/spammed these days with these enquiries and I simply don't have the time. This is a hobby for me, not a job. Please ask your questions in the public forum where you have thousands of potential helpers. It's nothing personal. Thanks for understanding. By-Tor.

06-11-2008, 11:11 PM
Nice Review By-tor

Really great read

06-11-2008, 11:21 PM
Such a beautiful watch! A classic, no doubt.

Thanks for the work, By-Tor. We appreciate the time and effort it takes to publish these reviews.

06-11-2008, 11:33 PM
Very interesting review BT, I was waiting for this one.

Great work as usual.


06-12-2008, 12:28 AM
Glad you liked the article guys!

At first I considered to buy a TT Sub, but in the end of the day... it's a little bit too much for me. It'll be a heartbreaking experience to ship these to their happy new owners though. :D

06-12-2008, 12:43 AM
Nicely done; enjoyed reading!!!

06-12-2008, 03:54 AM
"Either way, after seeing these two watches I have changed my thinking of the two-tone replicas. Both are good and substantial gold watches. If you're a fan of the two-tone Submariner you can purchase either one of these with a peace of mind. These have come a long way in three years."

We'll, thats all I needed to read ... time to try yet another TT rep. Fingers crossed and PP ready, hoping for the best.

The weight of the "gold", is it not too light to pass as gen?

Thanks BT, very nice review. this will help many for sure.

06-12-2008, 04:10 AM
i've never been a TT kinda guy, but this is such a great review, i almost wanna buy one!

though i know i wouldn't wear it...

06-12-2008, 04:32 AM
btw, BT, do you have info on this seller Eurotimez?
site/repgeek ID, etc.?

not sure if he's listed in the dealer section?
i don't see it there...

06-12-2008, 04:43 AM
Thanks guys.

@spam artist: Eurotimez is a RWG dealer. Not selling here (not yet anyway...)

Emperor Penguin
06-14-2008, 03:11 AM
I am the proud owner of both watches featured in this thread (BKMariner and Noobmariner), though presently my BKMariner is on the way. My Noobmariner is on the way back to China because, as stated in the review, the gold plating on the clasp left little to be desired. To be more honest, the plating on the clasp sucked. The gold plating actually crossed the borderline of the gold region and part of it went into the stainless steel. I was wise to have taken a picture of the watch before sending back. See for yourself.


See the gold cross over the top of the borderline? That was very disappointing. I suppose that this clasp came from a bad run of clasps at the Guangzhou factory. Even more appalling was when I emailed Chris at Eurotimez and asked him for a new clasp and he declined to replace it, citing that such is a "standard flaw" and he will not return it the factory for replacement. At the time I was willing to tolerate the defect, because one may only see it on close inspection; the watch blings like crazy in daylight, and I've gotten way too many looks at the watch. However, Chris was willing to accept it for replacement because of a second flaw: a bracelet link screw broke while I was sizing the watch, and the screw tip was stuck in the link.

So in a month or so, I will have both watches in my full-time possession, so I can answer anyone's questions about any part of the watch compared to another. Hopefully my replacement Noobmariner will not have that awful clasp plating, and my BKMariner will not have any defects, either. In time I will answer the question as to which one I like better, though I predict I will like them both equally.

There is one thing By-Tor forgot to mention in his review: the minutes hand on the Noobmariner is noticeably thinner than the genuine, which has a wider hand for minutes. (By-Tor did mention it in his Noobmariner review.) I have not yet received my BKMariner yet, but based on the pictures By-Tor included here, it appears the BKMariner has the more accurate wide or "fat" minutes hand.

The costs for the watches are roughly the same: $400 for the BKMariner and $375 for the Noobmariner. Both prices include shipping. Still, they are very expensive watches, but very much worth it in my opinion.

The Emperor has spoken.

06-14-2008, 03:24 AM
Nice review BT as always...:)

I can't talk hands and such like the might Penguin,when it comes to rollie reps,but i have bought a few TT models and i think they really stink plating wise,always a flaw and very rep looking....the FG models can be not bad,i don't know why the TT versions come out so lousy....:(

06-15-2008, 06:19 PM
I have not yet received my BKMariner yet, but based on the pictures By-Tor included here, it appears the BKMariner has the more accurate wide or "fat" minutes hand.

Once again: "BKMariner" is the same watch. All his watches come from the Noob factory, so there are no differences, except for the mods he performs for them.

It's possible that his factory batch has better minute hand though.

PS: The other watch in the review is MBK/MBW 16613 Sub. It has nothing to do with BK's offerings.

08-19-2008, 07:45 PM
Does anyone know of a way to protect the gold from turning on Noob?